| tomspud |
| | 02/06/12 at 07:23 PM | | #1 |
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| At most of the casinos in PA, some tables have continuous shuffle machines as opposed to shoes that the dealers deal from. Are they a disadvantage for non card counters? I usually avoid them if I can. |
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| cedsks |
| | 02/06/12 at 09:09 PM | | #2 |
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| Stay away, I dont trust those at all, to me its like playing at a poker machine, it even effects basic stratagy, if the basic count is off. |
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| tom c |
| | 02/06/12 at 10:07 PM | | #3 |
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taken from a web site I found.
Two independent studies were recently done to look at the effect of the CSM on the casino's edge against the basic strategy player. Michael Shackelford (www.thewizardofodds.com) took the first crack at this and published his results in issue #8 of Blackjack Insider Newsletter (www.casino.com/newsletter/blackjack/archive/) and later published his result in an article in Casino Player Magazine (April 2001). This was followed by another study by Dan Catlin that appeared in the 2001 summer issue of The New Chance & Circumstance Magazine.
This is what these mathematicians concluded from their studies.
The average number of 10s per hand is slightly higher with a CMS game than with a game that uses a cut card.
The probability of getting a blackjack is slightly higher with a CSM game than it is with a game using a cut card.
The casino's edge over a basic strategy player is actually slightly less in a CSM game vs. a game using a cut card.
Overall the player in a CSM game will stand to lose about 20% more money because they will be dealt 20% more hands per hour in a CSM game.
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| George |
| | 02/15/12 at 11:24 PM | | #4 |
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I will say that i do play shuffle games on a regular basis in California at Indian casinos. I play at 3-2 games that offer surrender and DAS. I usually will play a $5 game will play minimum until i win then will go to $10 will up my bet in $5 increments but usually don't go past $20 or $25...i regress my bet back to $5 once i lose. I am conservative and will surrender 15 and 16 against power cards and sometimes even 5 or 6 against Aces...which pisses people off...i've also surrendered hard 17 against 10-Ace. I buy in for $300 and have a loss limit of $100. I take a bus that costs $15 but they give you $30 to gamble with..basically a free bus ride with `15 bucks free. Some people don't take travel expenses into account when gambling but i do and always will unless of course i'm just on vacation.
The games can be volatile but i find that being conservative with your play and not jumping your bets around foolishly you can grind out wins and keep losses to a minimum and if the trend goes south sit out a few hands or walk away. |
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| LA Primarily JP Follower |
| | 02/17/12 at 06:15 PM | | #5 |
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Hey George,
Which California casinos offer this game? It doesn't sound too bad although if the Dealer Hits on Soft 17, that really is not good for the Player if the Blackjack game offered is any more than a two deck game.
LA Primarily JP Follower |
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| George |
| | 02/18/12 at 01:40 AM | | #6 |
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LA
I usually go to San Manuel in Highland California about a 1 hour bus ride for me. There is 1 6 deck shoe that offers a $5 game and maybe 1 or 2 shuffle games...the other tables are $10 on up. The times when me and my girlfriend go together combined we pay $30 between us for the bus and get $60 in return to gamble or eat at the buffet...etc. For me it's a decent gamble for my money and i don't have any travel expenses..don't even have to pay for gas. They have a $10 card craps game that is decent..i usually only play the Don't side. Barona in San Diego has very good games but i think they no longer have single deck...kind of a winding drive to get there but it's a nice area. |
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| LA Primarily JP Follower |
| | 02/19/12 at 02:09 AM | | #7 |
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Thanks for that information, George! But with a 6-Deck game, if the Dealer Hits on Soft 17, that makes it harder for the player to win. The only way that I would play on a game like that is if the cashback and/or comp percentage that the casio was offering was high enough to cover the casino's higher advantage. Otherwise, for me, I would find the game to be too unplayable.
With a $5 Minimum bet, based on what John Patrick has previously said, you could have a betting series of: $10-$5-$10-$15-$15-$20-$25 (as you are winning or tying) with a Win Goal of about as low as $30 and as high as $50 and a Loss Limit of as low as $60 and as high as $100.
LA Primarily JP Follower |
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| George |
| | 02/19/12 at 02:39 PM | | #8 |
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LA
Not sure i've seen any games in California recently that offer 6 deck, surrender, DAS and stand on 17. There's probably some in San Diego but at higher limits. Personally i feel the surrender option is more important than the stand on 17. I do factor in expenses...can't see the point in spending a few hundred bucks to get a good game..when i can get a game closer to home that requires no expense getting to and from and gives me $15 free play to start off with. Ideally i would love to play a $5 single deck game that gets dealt to the last card that offers surrender, S17, DAS, resplits Aces...but i doubt if i'll find it any time soon. The times when i do go to LV to play i usually go to Fremont st..but none of those games offer surrender and they all hit soft 17...which basically makes the San Manuel game more playable |
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| mr j |
| | 02/19/12 at 02:57 PM | | #9 |
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NOT starting an argument with the AP fellas but this is ONE MORE example of what I'm talking about. Under certain conditions (years ago) I'm sure a few AP tactics worked just fine....card counting being one of them. As time goes by, the tactics will be eliminated one by one.
(Also....no more bets called BEFORE the spin takes place)
The AP guys are not Jedi Knight's. The sooner THEY realize this, the better they can help themselves.
Ken
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| LA Primarily JP Follower |
| | 02/22/12 at 09:40 AM | | #10 |
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George,
I think that the question that all players need to ask themselves is whether the game that they are about to play is worth playing or are they better off in saving their money for elsewhere if better rules are offered there.
When a player plays at a game where if there are more than two decks being used, it is not a good thing at all if the Dealer has to hit on Soft 17, then it is going to make it much harder on the player to end up winning.
To see online which casinos (at least in Las Vegas) have what rules as well as what the casino's advantage is over the players, then the player should go take a look at the "Las Vegas Blackjack Survey" link which is at http://wizardofvegas.com . Then players should restrict their play to casinos where the casino's advantage over the player is no more than about 0.42%.
Although Surrender is an excellent player option, it percentage wise is worth less to the player than if the Dealer is Hitting On Soft 17.
And so if the rules at the casino leave the house's advantage over the player to be more than 0.42%, then at least for most players, they may be better off in just not playing as opposed to playing but then facing a more uphill battle than is necessary to be facing.
LA Primarily JP Follower |
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